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#10826355 Mar 20, 2015 at 04:28 PM
66 Posts
Progress = Trying to down the boss, priority targets etc.
Padding = Just doing the most amount of dps neglecting priority targets and just trying to get rank 1

BRF fights:

BeastLord: BM for progression, SV for padding numbers

Gruul: BM and MM are both top spec (depending on kill time)

Oregorger: MM because it does a lot of single target and box damage won't rely on your pet going crazy

Hans & Franz: MM is best because of chimera shot cleave when together, and just solid dps, but you can also go to BM and do just as much

Flamebender: BM by far

Kromog: BM and Surv (depending on rng procs of scales) both will do good dps. BM for priority, and Surv for padding

Maidens: BM and MM will do about the same

Operator: BM for sure

Blast Furnace: BM and MM will do a lot of dps on the priority targets but surv aoe is nothing to joke about so~~ BM & MM for progress SV for padding.. MM is probably best for our guild's strat because ranged group is moving around a lot and so you are losing a lot of dps just by always going from one side of the room to the other when it comes to p1.

Blackhand: BM all the way, unless you are assigned to go on balcony, then SV is where it's at


Conclusion:

BM is all around the best progression spec and can be switched out with MM in certain fights

SV will show to do more damage in a lot of fights because of it's crazy serpent sting and barrage

Sources:
Warcraft logs (looking at priority target damage and rank 1 and stuff like that)
Other hunters in top raiding guilds.
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#10854872 Mar 27, 2015 at 08:46 AM
1 Post
Actually, it's not as simple as that.

Your statement "padding numbers" is juvenile, and implies intent to purposefully increase dps without meaningful addition to the raid. It is rude, to be honest.

In a number of fights, getting adds down has been a priority, as if they aren't downed in a certain time frame, the raid wipes. BL with the add buff, Flame with the insta-wipe firestorm, and so on. I showed last night, for example, on Flame, that surv can beat BM in overall damage, but because my damage was not single target, are you saying it was "padding the meters"? I think that the fact we wiped because the dogs weren't killed fast enough shows the lack of logic in that one.

This is an explanation by Azortharion, whom you incorrectly quoted last night in terms of his stats priority. His worksheet, which changes over time considerably, is here: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1_NNkQQgTO9PwD9SbYv1N-vIDC7PeDYXVfrw_0-zvn7k/preview?sle=true&pli=1

This is from his Mmo-champion forums posting:

"Honestly, the whole "X for AoE, Y for single-target" way of looking at things is kind of stale. No fights are PURE AoE. One fight is pure single-target, but it's not a mechanically (or, with the incoming gear, even that much of a DPS check) challenging fight.

Gruul: BM and MM will both win here, depending on the killtime. And with only one guild having achieved a 5 min flat kill, I doubt that somehow everyone (or the average guild) will just be able to do so just with 5+ iLvls.

Oregorger: Up in the air. Marksmanship and Surv both win because of no pet reliance, but MM has the superior single-target and arguably crate damage, too.

Blast Furnace (strange order I know): BM and MM will both put more into Bellowers, Elementalists, Firecallers and the boss in the final phase with SV having little (reliable) single-target burst for these targets outside saving Beating Heart. Really good for AoE'ing all the things and getting wacky parses, though.

Hans'gar and Franzok: MM has a solid win in no pet reliance and semi-frequent 2-target cleave which is just insane for this spec. Loses quite a bit of Mastery uptime but looking at logs where BM is clearly favorized being played by 5 times as many in the 95th percentile, MM still wins on average.

Flamebender: With an average killtime of 5:44 that completely loves Stampede (will drop a bit next week but second Stampede will still be largely achievable) and big cleave that is, depending on strat, standing all over the boss is a BM nobrainer, although Chim-Shot cleave is noteworthy here too.

Kromog: Survival can place a lot of damage in a lot of targets regardless of range and with any decent Scales RNG it can get at least as crazy as BM, here. Wacky Stone Pillar damage compared to the other 2 specs, however, at least if you're trying with the 2 others (saving some Frenzy stacks and the like).

Beastlord Darmac: Survival will probably win on pure damage done here (well, does, looking at logs) being able to put its cleave into far-off adds with no pet to run back and forth, but lacks -big- in any sort of boss damage which is the fight decider near the end, as logs also show it.

Operator Thogar: A 5-stack Focus Fire saved for splits is very huge, same goes for the turretcannonthings. Pet travel is hardly a problem so BM is a nobrainer spec for this fight.

The Iron Maidens: 2-3 targets and boats you may have to do puts MM ahead, here. Excellent burst in the final phase, too, although a big BM Stampede should take the cake. Especially if turrets are your ONLY concern, case in point: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...one&target=306 - not with entirely bad RNG, though, 54% Trophy uptime in those last 2 minutes.

Blackhand: Sorta strat dependent, here. If you're on balcony duty, it's an SV fight, if you're doing the ground and baiting, it's a BM fight. MM doesn't have a huge place here other than being a super-simple spec to play for all of the warlocks on their hunter alts (TSK)."
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#10856374 Mar 27, 2015 at 03:50 PM
66 Posts
I quoted him correctly by saying Mastery> Haste> Multistrike because that's the overall stat priority

And beast cleave will do a lot more damage in flamebender kind of situation because our pets are already there, survival is only good at doing a lot of dps because you can multi dot things all over the playing field and bm can't send their pet all over. If a bm hunter and a survival hunter both didn't get fixated, the bm hunter will most certainly pull out ahead in wolves damage. But yes, we didn't get enough damage on the wolves mainly because dps died lol, not because we were playing the wrong spec.

"Padding numbers" is not juvenile, but it certainly helps a lot more to be a certain spec to help with certain damage. For instance -> if everyone was just playing the spec to get the most dps, priority targets will die a lot slower.. If you look at the beastlord fight last night: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/BTkN9ZzQg6JYGHMj#fight=27&type=damage-done&target=98
Imagine if I went a different spec to get more damage on adds or something, I don't think we would've gotten the kill because at the end almost everyone died. I'm not saying you guys played the wrong spec, cause we intended for you guys to get the adds down which is good! you guys did good on adds, I'm just saying certain specs are a lot better for the whole fight overall like bm.
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